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Is the Philippines really hot with Call Centers?

I’m seeing a lot of reports, news and all raves about the Philippines being the center of attention for the call center industry (or is that contact center?). But, is the Philippines the primary destination? Statistics would show we’re not.

Last week, reports came out that Apple will be opening up a tech support facility in Bangalore, India with an initial manpower of 1,500 and to double by the end of the year. Why Apple didn’t pick the Philippines, I can only speculate.


 




The early this week, Dell formally launched its office at the SM Mall of Asia in Pasay City with an initial workforce of 700 to be doubled by end of the year. I saw in TV that GMA was also there to thank Michael Dell for choosing the Philippines as its location for the call center facility. She was all praises actually. Didn’t she know that Dell has an existing support center in India? With an existing 1,000 10,000 call center reps in Bangalore, Dell is also planning to add 50% more within the year as well.

So, by the end of the year, Dell will have 1,000% times more hired agents in India than the Philippines.

Basically, I think we’re just a backup plan and not really the prime destination. At the end of the day, it will still be about the economics of the industry and Indians are still way cheaper than Filipinos.



Abe is the founder and Editor-in-Chief of YugaTech. You Can follow him on Twitter @abeolandres.

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115 Responses

  1. Migs says:

    We have to give them something better to offer than just lower costs.

  2. peachy says:

    can i speculate? i really dont have the stats but if whta you’re saying is true – then i can only guess maybe because of the call center agents’ professionalism… you see, i tried moonlighting in a call center company last year.. and guess what? like i was thinking – how old are these guys here? sheesh.. made me feel like 50sh… so if these companies see something that needs improving with our call center industry, it might be professionalism…. can you imagine 18-21 yr olds being profesisonal? im sorry but i have to be blunt about this cause ive been and worked with them… some (though not all) think they’re still in their classrooms…

  3. Nick Nichols says:

    Yuga – fascinating perspective.

    But I’m confused about your numbers – is there a typo?

    Pasay faciltiy = 700 x 2 = ~1500 by year end
    Dell Bangalore = 1000 x 1.5 = 1500 by year end

    1000% more?

  4. noemid says:

    I believe the Indians have the technical know-how compared to the Filipinos. Hence, their the better alternative. Their English accent isn’t that great though. Filipinos speak better English than them. I once called Microsoft support and an Indian woman answered it. Ugh, I had to tell her to slow down.

  5. yuga says:

    @ Migs

    Yes, I am thinking of any other edge we might have — aside from accent, how about literacy rate? or broadband prices?

    @ peachy

    I guess it’s easier to breed/teach yuppies the “western culture” and accent.

    @ noemi

    That’s the single (and obvious) significant advantage we have. I once had a chat with an HR of Convergys and she told me that are looking to hire 200 agents a week but they only get roughly around 30% of that quota. Not too many computer literate Filipinos without jobs out there.

    @ Nick

    Typo there. It’s supposed to be 10k. Some news even puts the target at 20,000 agents in the next 3 years.

  6. alfa says:

    I think the Filipinos do have the edge of having a better accent and even in terms of cost-efficiency as expounded here:
    http://asiancallcenterguru.com/2006/03/15/call-centers-showdown-2/

    However, I think due to call center companies not being good at making their employees stay, it’s harder for these call centers to be trusted with more workload. Aside from that, doesn’t it have something to do with the population ratio between Philippines and India?

  7. dopediva says:

    enlighten yourselves on the subject and read The World Is Flat by Thomas Friedman…

    in his book, he explains how outsourcing has benefited both the US and India. An average call center agent in the States would ask for $4000/mo and in India, it’s $1000/mo. if you’re michael dell, THAT’s a great deal.

    if Friedman’s numbers are right (he published the book in 2005), then Pinoy call center agents are brutally shortchanged. they don’t make $1000, that’s for sure.

    so i think the better question is, why are these companies headed for India, not the Philippines?

    it’s unfair to blame it all on the wobbly political situation, which has become commonplace. if you ask me, it’s how you establish the business here…it takes a lot of time and these entrepreneurs can’t waste time. i mean whoever had to go to the government offices here to secure permits can relate.

    and i agree, india’s english sucks! but they have the connections, because in the field of information tech, they are way above par. so if you’re the businessman shopping around for a call center base with tech facilities, you go to india because it’s a one-stop shop. here, on the other hand, we don’t have india’s schools of technology that bred the geniuses they have now.

    but we can still make it in english writing, proofreading and transcribing services. in the states, they charge $2 per proofread page. that’s 100 bucks here! if you proofread a book, and that’s 200 pages on the average, you can earn as much as 10k, just by working at home. we have to get paypal though. but the point is, if we can’t call, we can take advantage of this phenomenon called outsourcing because no other Asian country can speak AND write english better than WE do.

    pardon the length…i think i got carried away…

  8. Kaye says:

    It’s good that Dell has put up a call center here. It’s already a truism among Dell computer owners that their support isn’t so good. Hopefully, with Pinoys onboard to answer their queries, these owners will have better customer support experience.

  9. Kaye says:

    As for the quality of our call center agents, I think that it will improve in the few years to come through training. A lot of non- and under-employed people professionals in other industries are starting to chew over the possibilities and financial rewards that call centers could provide. This calls into consideration the establishment of “training centers” where budding agents can enroll prior to applying for call center jobs. It’s a good alternative as well for the call center trainors who got tired of shifting skeds and switched to jobs held during regular hours.

    Training. Support. Infrastracture. If we establish these three, then India will have a good reason to be concerned. Right now, we’ll just play second fiddle–which isn’t so bad after all. ;)

  10. yuga says:

    I got this from the Wikipedia:

    ——————————————–
    Call Center Employee cost

    USA — US$ 19,000 annually
    Australia — US$ 17,000 annually
    Philippines — US$ 9,050 annually
    India — US$ 7,500 annually

    Currently the Indian BPO Industry employs in excess of 245,100 people and another 94,500 jobs are expected to be added during the current financial year (2005-2006).

    On the other hand, it is estimated that 112,000 people were working in call centers in the Philippines in 2005, bringing in revenues of US$1.12 billion for the year.

    A survey by Kelly Services, Inc. based in Michigan, showed that India is no longer the first choice of U.S. companies looking to setup their offshore backroom operations. The study also cited companies eyeing the Philippines as the better site due to quality.

    ——————————————–

    Emphasis on “no longer the 1st choice” and “quality”. So India really was the first choice in the past years and Philippines came in second because of the “quality” factor.

    The “employee cost” might include salary, benefits/incentives, insurance, paid vacations, allowances, food, transpo, trainings, etc.

  11. peachy says:

    food for thought..
    my brother works for a call center company in baguio city…
    their call center agents receive calls from INDIAN call center agents who puts on hold a customer from say USA, telling them they will refer them to their supervisor, which is the pinoy call center agent in baGUIO… so the baguio guy talks to the american client and in the middle is the indian call center rep…

    duh?

  12. jobert says:

    Somehow red tape also gets in the way. I mean, I have first hand experience from personal frineds on those “misc. expenses” when trying to get permits and licenses from the government. Not to mention BIR audits that goes on and on until a “settlement” is agreed upon…

  13. jobert says:

    Oh yeah and let’s not forget that India is smart in expanding to other outsourced services aside from call centers. It’s sad that our expansion to other forms of services is not as fast as theirs.

    I blogged about that months ago: http://www.callcenterscript.com/2005/11/riding_the_wave_1.html

    I mean even last year, India has been trying to pirate our own pilots: http://jobert.blogspot.com/2005/12/is-it-illegal-to-offer-better-paying.html

    Is this like the Shawarma/Zagu craze gone hi-tech all over again?

  14. arn says:

    Let me quote the salaries in India (taken from http://www.crmbuyer.com/story/44937.html):

    According to Mahesh, the less-experienced, less-educated agents are difficult to retain because they will switch to another call center for only 1,000 Indian Rupees ($23 at US$1 = INR 43.6) more per month. The pay range for agents at Purple is INR 8,000 to INR 15,000 per month, or $183.50 to $344 at current exchange rates.

    For this first type of agent, Purple generally pays INR 12,000 to INR 13,000 ($275 to $298). In Bangalore, this type of agent is paid INR 5,000 to INR 7,000 ($115 to $160) in an upcoming company compared to INR 8,000 to INR 12,000 ($183 to $275) for the big-name firms, according to Priya Dhar of eBusiness India.

    In Karachi, Pakistan, new agents with no experience are paid 8,000 Pakistani Rupees (PKR) to 14,000 PKR ($134 to $235 at US$1 = 59.6 PKR), according to Babar Jhumra, who runs the NBA Computers call center there.

    In Kolkata, where the English-speaking labor pool is flush with entry-level talent and costs are lower, small centers are offering starting rates of INR 4,500 ($103) per month for this type of agent.

    Well….I havent read anywhere that Indians are paid 1,000 dollars. Have you talked with an Indian agent? and you believe he/she is paid 1,000? Talk to one, and judge it yourself.

  15. kutitots says:

    Interesting piece of news… But isn’t Dell outsourcing to the PI already? Oh well.

    I think cost really is the issue why Dell is STILL outsourcing to India. It CAN’T be quality, that’s for sure. I used to work for a call center, I’ve spoken to Indian reps more than once, and it would take about 5 minutes for me to comprehend what these guys were trying to say. I’m not sure if this is still a common Indian “practice,” but I remember getting customers complaining about Indians who have hung up on them. Quality-wise, we’re ahead of them. But cost? We’re definitely not that cheap.

    Or rather, the PI outsourcing companies that Dell pays aren’t that cheap. It doesn’t take a genius to know that only a fraction of what Dell pays the companies goes to the employees :P There’s 99% chance that the same applies to Indians. With salaries cheaper than ours, you really can’t expect much in terms of quality.

    @ arn : I’ve spoken to Indian agents, and even one of their supervisors. I’m sorry, but even the supervisor doesn’t even come close to a “thousand-dollar worth” agent :D

  16. rolando says:

    Just curious what you guys think.
    Do you think that the call center industry is sustainable in the Philippines in the long term ?

  17. India hotter than Phillipines.
    For outsourcing voice, chat, email or back-office support, visit the website of Aumenta Call Center, India.
    http://www.aumenta.cc

  18. Krispy says:

    After having worked in Bangalore for Microsoft and now being employed in Manila, I can tell you that Indian Technical support agents are MUCH BETTER trained in IT than their Philippine counterparts. They study in colleges, universities and institutes that have first generation hardware and asoftware. Here, it is difficult to find a school with even second generation equipment or thrid generation software. SQL database language is unknown of here while it is the industry standard throughout the world.

    If the Philippine wants to attract high-tech jobs, it needs to step up its IT training. Bottom line.

  19. anne says:

    hi! i’m presently employed in a call center and i like my job. i want to strangle some dumb americans who simply CAN’T understand simple instructions but hey! its part of the job. i am a tech support agent and i didn’t have technical background. i didn’t even know that there was a memory module inside the damn computer. the mind is not stagnant and everything can be learned. filipinos don’t have to go to technical schools to be equipped with the knowledge to assist customers. GOD designed our brains to be this complex to give us all the opportunity to learn. read, research, observe, apply.

    have a nice day everyone!

    PS: we can’t have the best of both worlds. but if you ask me, gaining technical knowledge is a lot easier than unlearning the mother tongue…

  20. Kashif says:

    It’s hard to believe that some one can brag so much about his quailties.I am not supporting indians but i am damn sure that Filipinos are as bad at English as Indians.Filipinos have thick chinese accent which no way can be acceptable for any job where a person has to communicate to American and Birtish customers.I wish i could hear a single Filpino having nutral accent which does not compell the listener to request to “come again”.If any Filipino thinks he has better accent than indians, do give me call on +9203002721603, i will look forward to hearing better sound than a pathetic chinese accent.

    Kashif
    Karachi,Pakistan

  21. anne says:

    (to the last person who posted a reply) i would really love to give you a call but i don’t want to waste my time and money. you need to learn more about filipinos. where in the world did you hear that filipinos have chinese accent??? do you know how far china is from the philippines? or do you even know where the philippines is? i have have no qualms about indians or your capability. i was simply replying to the post of the last person about filipinos not having enough technical knowledge. there is no point in arguing who’s better at english or who’s better at the technical field. we can’t say that in general filipinos or indians suck. there are fields that we are extremely good at doing. and there are areas that need a lot of improvement. a debate that will lead no where is a debate for morons. so let’s not join the club.. :o)

  22. bobe says:

    It’s “neutral” not “nutral.”

  23. Pinoy mentality and culture result in Filipinos being horribly inept at most things they do. They care little about customer satisfaction and are just as eager to pass on clients to other people and skip on their own responsibilities.

  24. Paul says:

    As of June 5, 2006

    Three months after Apple Computer announced plans to set up a call center in Bangalore, India, the company has changed its mind.

    An Apple spokesman confirmed that the company no longer intends to locate a call center in Bangalore, a hub for call centers in India. “We have re-evaluated our plans, and have decided to put our planned support center growth in other countries,” Apple’s Steve Dowling said.

    The Times of India reported the move on Saturday, and said Apple had already hired about 30 people for the operation. Dowling declined to comment on what caused Apple to pull back on the Bangalore plans, or which other countries Apple is considering for the new call center.

    In March, Apple announced that it would build the call center in Bangalore after experiencing a surge in growth over the past few years. Apple currently operates call centers in Sacramento, Calif., and Austin, Texas.

    Apple’s technical support has generally received higher ratings than its PC counterparts. An August 2005 study conducted by the University of Michigan’s American Customer Satisfaction Index found consumers ranked Apple ahead of other vendors, such as Dell, Hewlett-Packard and Gateway.

    My Comment: Hopefully, they would divert their attention to the Philippines. Though we are small in size in terms of population, but what we could give is a quality service .

  25. richard says:

    hey mr kashif, here’s a comment from one my us customers

    “filipinos are easier to understand than indians”

    comment i got when i was working in convergys for a Technical Account.

    others even said indians can’t speak english.

    another american told me that they had a running joke in the US about indians “whenever they here indians, they immediately hang up and then dial again…”

    but some indians speak really good english, i must say.


    and yeah, most filipinos are guilty of saying “come again”, we’re aware of that are we’re just laughing at it… we’ll correct it, don’t you worry.

    by the way, we have mac tech support in the philippines too. and apple inbound/outbound sales and tech support.

    i am not arguing with you mr. kashif, you’ve just kind of pissed me off… observe how your fellow indians speak first before you comment on us.

    [email protected]

  26. richard says:

    and uh, by the way, do you guys know “daksh” an indian BPO, a subsidiary of IBM? they actually operate here in the philippines… what do you think it suggests?

    also HTMT, Wpro Spectramind, etc… these are some of indian BPOs that operate in the philippines…

    on the other hand, eTelecare and ambergris solutions, filipino BPOs, don’t have a single center in india.

    wala langh.. hehe

  27. gracie says:

    It’s funny reading the conversations above….

    Come to think of it… I am a Filipino. I believe both worlds has its downfall. I do agree that we Filipinos still has a lot to work on. Indians are great with IT. We are doing good in IT field, lets try to be better.

    With regard to grammar and accent, I believe that we highly surpass the Indians on this angle.

    It is a well known fact that Indians have this strong accent. I believe that Indians know the English language as well, but they find it hard to put into words what they would like to express during a conversation.

    Every average Filipino child can speak, write and comprehend basic english. A well educated Filipino can speak English, write English, and comprehend to English language thern excel. I strongly believe this has been our advantage. We Filipinos are highly susceptible to change…

    I have worked in a call center/ contact center/ outsourcing company….no matter how you say it….it is a place where you can hear words such as phone, pc, vector launch, headset, amplifier, leads….
    a place where everyone speaks using different languages… convincing the person on the other line…attending to the other persons needs….

    It takes great intelligence and skills to adpt to change…to speak while thinking of what is to follow to the flow of the conversation…
    to speak and think simultaneously…

    It is a difficult job that both worlds have here…I commend everyone for holding on to our job!

    I am a Filipino and I’d like to share with you a common comment I have been receiving from most of our American customers…

    “I’m glad at last I’m speaking with a local…. I know it when I am speaking with an Indian”.

    My heart leaps whenever I hear those words….imagine how can they tell when one is an Indian?? (while they have regarded me…as a LOCAL!)

    Dig that! Ü

    Peace one and all!!!

  28. Steve says:

    Hmmm,

    It’s not really because we have a better accent or technical training. But remember we used to be an american colony and it’s only about 10 years ago I believe that we had an American base here. We happily watch the NBA and rave about American movies.

    I also had an Indian friend who stayed for a year in the Philippines and he was funny and he didn’t quite have a strong Indian accent maybe because there are places in India that has a particularly strong accent much like here I guess.

    Anyway you can try the http://www.wikipedia.com for call centers and you can check out what they say about Filipino call centers vs. Indian ones. You can also read about the difference between Filipino and Indian English there. Okay? No need for arguments for the two races because that website is a very neutral ground.

  29. Changes to dial up and prepaid helpdesks in NZ
    10 August 2006

    Telecom has carried out a review of its internet dial-up and mobile prepaid helpdesk operations and will be introducing changes to these operations later this month.

    Telecom will begin to transfer some inbound calls to its dial up and mobile prepaid helpdesk call centre services to TeleTech and SITEL’s international operations in Manila. Dial-up calls will begin to be migrated in late August while prepaid calls will be migrated later in the year.

    The calls being transferred are calls currently outsourced to the two international suppliers and are handled by Teletech and SITEL employees in Auckland and Palmerston North.

    This announcement does not impact Telecom employees, and we have no plans to move any other call centre operations or services overseas at this time.

    There will be no loss of jobs to Teletech and SITEL call centre staff in New Zealand. All TeleTech staff will receive additional training to allow them to assist Telecom with the growing number of calls to the Broadband technical helpdesk. SITEL staff will be offered the chance to move to other areas such as 018 Directory Assistance.

    The changes for these services will meet the need for a growth in call centre operations in New Zealand, particularly at the broadband helpdesk, and will provide some cost savings.

    The new helpdesk centres will retain our existing high standards of service.

    We have already been trialling sending some inbound dial up calls to Teletech’s helpdesk operation in Manila over the past few months. The results have been very positive, showing consistently high levels of customer satisfaction and operational performance.

  30. vCall says:

    Filipino folks – relax.

    Not long ago an American President described a Filipino. I dont want to repeat that definition – not a decent thing to do here. What are you so proud about – being close to USA?? For all this kind of respect that you folks get from them???? It should be a matter a shame than pride.

    FYI – India’s BPO business from UK is almost around 30% of the business that India generates from USA. The over all number of people working for UK processes in India is more than the total number of people working in the Philippines call centres. All BPO’s in Philippines are largely a part of the Disaster recovery plans for the outsourcing companies.
    If you thought Indians did not speak good english then the Brits would be the last to put their customers there.

  31. Indian pana kakanakana says:

    To Mr. Kashif!

    Please apply deodorant 10x everday and brush your teeth 10x. You may also gargle 15 to 10x, before you speak to us. The reason why filipinos lose their accent while speaking to your is because of your stranged smell!!!!!

  32. Paul says:

    Whatever you guys would say, it’s like comparing David to Goliath.

    Accept the fact that India will not be overtaken by the Philippines when it comes to BPOs or the same stuff.

    Geez! they are in billions, we are not not even a hundred million yet. In short, we are only 1% of the entire Indian populace.

  33. James Snider says:

    Indian call centers are preffered by most European companies and Philippine call centers by most American companies.

    Being neither Indian or Filipino. I find the Filipino accent siginificantly clearer and easier to understand than the Indian accent.

    The Philippines will never surpass the number of seats that India can offer simply because the population of India is much larger than that of the Philippines. This population advantage that India has is countered by the higher quality customer service that the Philippines offers.

    Unlike India, most call/contact centers in the Philippines are physically managed by Americans therefore western level customer service is strictly enforced and maintained.

    In short, India can give almost unlimited seats but the Philippines dishes out beter quality. Therefore, companies that are more selective in terms of quality and service go to the Philippines while those that are after the numbers go to India.

  34. alexkoegler says:

    ***

    I am not Indian,Pakistani or Filipino, but currently residing in a place wherein I could say all of this nationalities are battling each other in terms of employment capabilities and I have been to different parts of the globe as a Human Rescources Director… Living in a place where English Language is Highly needed to communicate to cater the businesses standards,

    I believe that Filipinos are on the top of the lists.. they can be highly recommended specially on the field where communications are vital with guests or clients.. They speak clearly. very polite, seldomly argues with clients and not a chronic complainer. These are the pivotal aspects that one should consider in hiring specially on call centers outside the US & UK.

    On the other hand,,

    Indians & Pakistanis are unbelievably very good on thier initial interview till they get thier jobs, loves to talk & talk..they are very good in talking … but unfortunately, most of the time talks without sense or out of the topic, tends to argue with clients, and are chronic complainers.

    I am not saying this to generalize the negative aspect of one to the other, but in 30years of recruiting people from Asia, Filipino’s are better than India & Pakistan.

  35. Jose says:

    Are we arguing for a cause, am an Indian and working in Manila. I see lot more positives in Manila than in India, not to undermine indian talent but….my experience is nobody is second to none. India shines in IT and Phil is great in quality. Though I have handled clients from Manila and Bangalore. US clients are more comfortable with Phillipines and UK is is fine with Indian centers… the primary reason being UK taught english to Indians and Phil had US base and still american(only south asian country having a left hand drive like in the US) the training and understanding the outsourcing world is more practical in Manila than in India, can anybody compare attrition in India and phillipines and no. of clients pulling out of each centers due to intergrity issues… I have seen few in Manila than in India. Why should channel 4 conduct a sting operations on indian call center and not in Philippines… that too for UK broadcasting… do we have answers. Lets learn from each other and find synergy, both the countries earn lots n lots of forex and this one keeps the economy growing. I have seen people from manila working in India and myself working in Manila. Lets be proud that we are the two countries very dominant in outsourcing and lets use the expertise in both countries to ensure we become a bigger and better economies.

  36. Filipinos’ advantage regarding matters like this is our values… I, as a Filipino, have been fascinated by Filipinos’ value system… I’m very proud to be Filipino because despite the fact that we faced many trials and challenges over the years, we’re still here, ready to face the world with pride and honor… I would like to congatulate the Filipinos for being so…

  37. paul says:

    The growth of call centers continue to be rapid, up from 72 registered in late 2003 when the Asian Call Center Review reported the Philippines as the first rank in the offshore call center industry for the Asian region, surpassing India at the second spot. From being an almost unexplored BPO territory in 2000, the call center industry has grown leaps and bounds. The Philippines Board of Investments (BOI) estimates growth rate of this industry since 2001 to 100 percent annually with less than 1000 seats in 2000 to more than 69,000 at the end of 2004.

    In 2004, the Philippines already captured 20 percent of the total world market share in contact center services. The Philippine government estimates the Philippines could capture 50 percent of the total world English-speaking market in 2008. This industry, aside from contributing 12 percent in to the Philippines gross national product, is also the fastest growing provider for Filipino college graduates. The Information and Communications Technology division of the BOI reported that the call center industry experienced a growth rate of 70 percent in 2005 making it the most dynamic of all sectors in the Philippine information technology industry. It has been estimated that as many as 130,000 could be working in all call centers in the Philippines by February 2006. Accoding to industry forecasts, more than a million Filipinos would be employed in the call center industry, with more than US$12 billion in revenues in the year 2010.

  38. The recent news from asiaone shows that Singapore just overtook the Philippines.

    More details at: http://farmout.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!5056AE780099DDA4!1298.entry

  39. Krishnan says:

    Hi,
    Um…as far as technical assistance is concerned, Indya can be better. The Filipinos are immature and are unsure of themselves. One thing with Indians is that they have an attitude and cannot tolerate an irritating customer. They don’t retain their politeness with an angry customer. But that attitude is not there when it comes to Phillipines.

  40. Anja says:

    Hey,

    everybody who is looking for a callcenter job please send me following details to [email protected] and I will refer you and they will call you! We need people for english, german and french for starting this march!!!

    First Name:
    Last Name:
    Course:
    College Graduate or Undrgraduate:
    Home#:
    Mobile#:
    Best Time To Call: AM or PM

    Do you have any sales, Customer Service or Callcenter Experience?
    Please reply asap, they are looking for people to start this March!!!

  41. Shasha says:

    why?

    Last week, reports came out that Apple will be opening up a tech support facility in Bangalore, India with an initial manpower of 1,500 and to double by the end of the year. Why DIDN’T Apple WENT (???) to the Philippines, I can only speculate.

    THAT IS WHY!!!

  42. BrianB says:

    Indians have everything, every skill you can possibly think of, from natural medicine to programming to rocket science, heck even love making (kama sutra). What does the Philippines have? Boxers and beauty queens.

  43. leo paoulo says:

    filipinos is the only people in the world can adopt different languages… how about India? hmmm….

  44. david of TN USA says:

    I’ve been an IBM and HP customer, I called HP customer service due to my HP laptop wireless LAN vanished, at first it was a nice voice from from a local, but all of a sudden the HP support person transfered me to India i’m terribly upset because i can’t fully understand what they’re saying. On the other hand the IBM’s customer service from the Philippines speak clearly as my neighbor here in TN. The call agent lady was polite and i can feel she’s smiling while talking to me.what a great experience.

  45. hmn, i think for tech support they prefer India because Indians are more technically trained than Filipinos. Just same as with our business here in Dubai, our company’s main business is Web Design and development. Our CEO prefers Indians when its for codings but design wise he prefers Filipinos. As Filipinos are very much updated when it comes to style but coding wise we’re poor.

    Here in Dubai, i had this bad customer service experience from a Courier company. I was talking to Indians and they dont even know what customer service is, they do not know proper transfer and proper holding. They dont know how to empathize and sympathize. They will just transfer you without even informing you where the hell they will transfer you. They love to but-in. Geez, Indians are the most horrible and frustrating Customer service rep that i ever talked to. But according to my Boss most company here in Dubai (managed and owned by Local Arabs, British, Americans, and Australians…)they prefer to hire Filipinos…next are Indians…

    I was a Customer Service Rep for 3 years (McAfee and IBM) and I can say very few Filipinos are working as tech reps. I can say Indians… they are techy.. yes… but they dont have an attitude of a good representative. So I think better if there will be also schools in our country who will offer short courses for PC or laptop troubleshootin and other techy stuff so we can be better that Techy Indians.

  46. Kristofferson baldonaza says:

    Call centers…..the mere mention of it already makes me feel sick…. I mean sooner or later if you happen to be doing the same thing, year in and year out…you’re going to snap…i tell you…with their shifting graveyard schedules..indeed you’ll be headed to your graveyard in no time….hehehe…

  47. Robert says:

    Same here..Makes me feel sick! Is this the best thing our government can do to promote IT here in our country? To open more call centers? Geee!!! They shouldn’t even be in the category of Information Technology.

  48. IT and Comms Trainer says:

    Ei just wanna lecha know that I took Accountancy but because of the Call Center of Linksys – Cisco Systems, here in the Philippines, Im now Cisco Certified Network Associate with an equivalent knowledge of Cisco Certified Security Professional and Certified Ethical Hacker. Transfered to AT&Ts supported networks. Were talkin bout the ability of the Filipinos in terms of IT? Dude, we can definitely excel…. IF WE WANT TO…. And yeah you can categorize call center to the field of IT. And about the capability of the Filipinos in communication, a lot of us sounds like native english speakers.

  49. adrian says:

    sinu pong nakaka alam ng call center ng AIMS INC. gusto ko pong mag background check, baka niloloko lang kame email nyo po me [email protected]

  50. a Kiwi says:

    My experience with Phillippine contact centres for NZ companies has been less than satisfactory. I am shocked at what passes for acceptable levels of oral English. The reps on the end of the phone have the most horrible FAKE sounding U.S accents and are very difficult for the average NZer to understand. I have lived and worked with Nth American people for many years and these Fillipino reps are not even close to passable. They have very little understanding of the products or queries that they are dealing with and give out way too much incorrect information. They send customers spinning in circles through call centre routing to and from NZ and the Phillipines because they couldn’t do their job properly the first time. Any company that has a contact centre based in the Phillipines would live to regret it, unless the competition is all based out of India, which is 10 times worse.

  51. incuboy says:

    apple has a technical support center here in manila..in shaw blvd to be exact..ive worked there..but i just recently resigned last week due to management issues..

  52. incuboy says:

    2006: the year when steve jobs(apple founder) is thinking whether to have an apple technical center in india or philippines. He listened to some call center agents taking calls. Both indians and filipinos. He said that filipinos are way better than indians due to the fact that indian call center agents are just taking calls for the sake of the job. But filipinos knew how to symphatize with customers as well. This was the reason why apple decided to have a center here in manila…

  53. SBP says:

    Just want to know why Philippine nationalas hate Indians. We havae our good and bads.. I see lot of philippines speaking good english and lot don’t know even how to speak eng. Same with Indians too. Let us think about how to make better quality of life and imporve our standard of living. In some area Indians are smart and in few areas Phil are smart. However all the Indians are not so smart and same with all the philippinos too. I see lot of philippines they think that they are better than Indians in qulaity or whatever.. They think Indians don’t know how to deal their customers, they don’t know english. If the Indians doesn’t know how to deal customers how can they run first and second world Biggest steel indusries… the back bone for all Industry. How can they become the CEO of PEPSI, City Bank, Vodafone. I don’t know that much about Philippine. but I am sure there are smart Philippinoes same with these people too. Still you have questions? please read the Editorials of Manila Times dated 6 Oct, 2007. We need coperation, love, sharing of culture… We have no reason to live like enemies, we don’t have any issues other than just these hypthicated false sense of feeling. Let us learn and live together…

  54. a kangaroo says:

    i would like to comment on kiwi’s remarks. i have worked with a lot of north American people and i tell you Filipino accent is at par with the Americans and i have a great and satisfying transactions with them i even mistook them for a local.

  55. Truth and fact says:

    This blog looks like an anti Indian blog….
    Most of them under the assumption that Idian doesn’t do how to conduct business, how to care customers, don’t know how to speak english. and my Phil friends under the impression that India is in stone age… India got lot of dis advantages and ofcourse ADVANTAGES too. After 60 yrs of Indipendence with billions of poeple, where we at after sixty yrs of Indipendence and where were the so called developed countries after 60 yrs. The only country in Asia where democracy still maitained without overthrowing the democractic Gvt. Indians can be really Proud of that… How many Philippines companies providing jobs to Indians and how many Indian companies providing jobs to Philippine nationalities. You all believe in India thy dont have enough educated People there. Go to middle east you see thousands of Phil nationalities (smart and friendly) working in Indian companies.
    About outsourcing… India demonstrated the world there is feasibility for outsourcing and it can be done successsfully and save money . And regarding smartness… in what field you are really smarter than Indians? Pharmacology? space technology? Nono science? rocket science? Intelligence system and net work? IT? business? Political system? or in expanding business.. They are not just in outsourcing they acquiring global companies, and they may outsource you their global job to you people in order to exploit your advantages…
    And in business see a few following comanies that Ind companies recently aquired. I am not including the 35 billion Indian Company acquisition by Mittan group. and they are the first two top steel companies…

    Tatal steel- Corus Group UK 12Billion UK
    Hindalco- Novelis- Canada 6 Billion
    Videocon- Daewoo Electronics-Korea 729 MIL
    Dr. Reddys’s- Betpharm-Germany- 597MIllion
    Suzlon Energy- Hansen (Belguim) 565 Million
    HPCL- Kenya Petroleum Refinery- 500 Million
    Ranbaxy Lab- Terpia (Romania) 324 Million
    Tata Steel- Natsteel (Singapore) 293 Million
    Viedocon- Thompson(France)- 290 Million
    VSNL- Teleglobe (Canada) 239 Million
    Bharat Forge- CDP
    UCAL Fuel– Amtec
    Sundarm Fastners- Cramlington
    Tata- Incat, Dawaoe
    Matrix- Dcpharama
    Jubiliant- Targer Research
    Malladi- Novus Fine Chemicals
    Tata Tea- Tetly UK
    Tata Tea- FMLai
    Apeejay- Premier
    Wipro- Nerver Wire
    Mastek- Enteram
    Just name a few that i knew..Recently Kig Fisher accired one of the Scotch Wisky company and they are the second largest producer of Liquor in the world…
    Still you beilieve Indians don’t know how to care cutomers? how to speak English, How to conduct business. One more thing, India plan to expand their business in PHil by investing 2 Billion dollar..
    My friends Indians and you can do lot of things together and lot of things to learn… Just coperate and grow together….

  56. woteber says:

    Indians are great. Filipinos are self-proclaimed great. I’m a Filipino and there are too many things we as people need to accomplish before we dare say that we’re better than Indians.

  57. Truth and Fact says:

    Indians not educated, don’t know enlgish, dont know how to care customers, not even smart and doesn’t know how to conduct business?

    Silicon Valley: Indians in Santa Clara County, home of the Silicon Valley, have the highest median household income, own the most valuable homes, and are the best educated, according to a latest Census report. The report which provides a snapshot of Santa Clara County, one of the only two counties in the country, shows that Indians have median income of $116,240, which is about 44 per cent above the county’s median of about $81,000, said the San Jose Mercury News.

    The report profiled the four largest immigrant communities – Indians, Mexicans, Chinese and Vietnamese. It found that although three-quarters of the Indian population was born abroad, they own the most valuable home of about median home price of $860,000, compared with the county’s price of $743,000.

    More than four in five Indian adults have at least a bachelors’ degree and Indians are most likely to be white-collar professionals, with about 80 per cent engaged in management, professional and related occupations.

    Kailash Joshi, a prominent Indian entrepreneur here, told the Mercury News that he believes Indians flourish in the US not just because of their commitment to education, but because their native country prepared them for America’s ethnic, linguistic and religious diversity, and its aggressive market economy.

    A significant share of the valley’s Chinese population lacks an advantage its Indian counterpart enjoys – English. Almost 40 per cent of Chinese, which is twice the share of Indians, is not fluent in English. Despite that they thrive in business.

  58. a Kiwi says:

    A kangaroo,

    I don’t know which people from the Phillipines you were talking about, they must be pretty rare though. I have lived in Asia for longer than I care to think and have very rarely stumbled accross any with passable accents. I will admit that they do exist, but don’t work in call centres for the most part. Comprehension is another HUGE barrier for them.

    I hate going from tier one to tier two through these help desks, the first person you get may be ok but it’s like lotto getting another rep that you can understand or that can understand you. I know IT and can’t believe the people that pass for IT help desk reps.

    But hey, there is one point. India is much worse to deal with and comes with much more unwanted attitude.

  59. wotever says:

    To All Indian Folks.

    Guys, please understand that what you’re reading here is not really the general opinion of all Filipinos toward Indians. These not so good comments made to you by some self-glorifying Filipino folks here do not necessarily mean anything. It’s true that there are many world class Filipinos and there are brilliant Indians but most of the time these guys are really low profile and hate to join discussions like this, which seem to malign other people or race. Kudos to the government of India for producing highly educated engineers, which dominate the battlefield of the IT industry.

  60. woteber says:

    To All Indian Folks.

    Guys, please understand that what you’re reading here is not really the general opinion of all Filipinos toward Indians. These not so good comments made to you by some self-glorifying Filipino folks here do not necessarily mean anything. It’s true that there are many world class Filipinos and there are brilliant Indians but most of the time these guys are really low profile and hate to join discussions like this, which seem to malign other people or race. Kudos to the government of India for producing highly educated engineers, which dominate the battlefield of the IT industry.

  61. Truth and Fact says:

    Mr/Ms Woteber,
    I do agree with you and not referring to all the Phil nationals. I read a lot of bad comments about Indians from Phil people than any other nationals in the world. Yes we have our on goods and bads. I read your comments that India and Indians stink, cultureless.. Seems like those people are from a foriegn plannet. We do not need any of those people’s (not talking about good people in Phil)help to develop our more than 5 Trillion dollar economy with 10% growth rate (Phil GDP 449.8 Billion with 5.4% Growth rate). Those who think india and Indians stink can go away from Indian companies or stop our investment in your country. Or you can even stop the submarine high speed data network connection from Indian Company, stop bio fuel technology coperation, stop asking dairy science technology stop asking satelite data.. Still stink??????
    There are people in your country and other countries to identify the potential of India’s growth and interest in investing India…
    These are the few business news from today about India

    Gulf realty firms to invest $50 bn in India

    13 Indian firms in Asia`s fastest-growing list

    Indians second biggest investors in London

    Jyoti CNC acquires French company for Rs 240 crore

    13 mn.sq.ft of IT space in the works..

    France’s Carrefour to enter India’s retail sector

    State Bank of India to set up branch in China’s Tianjin.

    SAP India to increase headcount to 7,000 in next two years.

    Civil aviation minister Praful Patel, has said that the government has plans to touch 100 operational airports by 2008 and was working to create at least 500 small and big airports across the country. Patel said around $150 billion was expected to be invested in the aviation sector in the next few years.

    Singapore’s CapitaLand Ltd, one of Asia’s largest listed property companies, has established a US$600 Million fund that will invest in retail mall developments in India, the company said

    In the lastest example of British Universities collaborating with Indian institutions, the University of Ultster and Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) Kanpur have begun working on developing intelligent robotic device to help severly disabled people becom independent.

    Indian.Kerala Chief Minister laid foundation stone for $381 Million Smart City along with Fareed Abdul Rahman, executive Director. The Smart City Project is being carried in collboration between the State Government and Dubai Internet City.

    India IBS Softward Services has linked a multibillion Five-year deal with Tokyo based All Nippn Airways Co Ltr (ANA) to provide an integrated supply chain Management solution for theier cargo business. ANA is Japan’s second largerst domestic and International Airline.

    A Delegation from Novara, one of the most industriallly advanced cities in Itally held discussion in India for possible cooperation in IT between Novara and Technopark

    French oil-major Total is exploring various marketing avenues in India including aviation, industry fuels and retail service stations segments as part of its growth strategy to enhance its presence in the country, particular in the south. Besides, it also wants to grow its LPG business by 50 per cent in another five years.

    London: In a major victory for India Inc., Britain’s largest manufacturing union that represents Ford has backed a bid by India’s Tata Motors to buy out the luxury car brands Jaguar and Land Rover.joint sales of Jaguar and Land Rover would fetch Ford between $1.3 and $1.5 billion.

    Saudi Arabia is India’s 13th largest market for exports and a source for 5.5 per cent of India’s total imports. This year, total bilateral trade has reached $16 billion.

    NEW DELHI: India added 8.1 million wireless users in October, taking the subscriber base to over 217 million, while total telephone numbers crossed the 250 million mark two months ahead of target, the regulator said.

    NEW DELHI: India has emerged as the world’s best performing stock market in the past three months, notwithstanding the five-day plunge that wiped off close to $85 billion of investors’ wealth from the bourses

    BEIJING: Indian Billionaire Lakshmi Mittal-led ArcelorMittal, the world’s biggest steelmaker, has become the first foreign company to acquire controlling stake in a Chinese steel firm — China Oriental — in a deal valued at about $1.6 billion

    ndia has emerged as a hub for climate change research in Asia with UK emerging as a key partner.

    While the Chief Scientific Advisor to UK David King has been on a lecture tour of India exhorting scientists to move fast on climate change, the government on its part is moving

    Britain’s Marks & Spencer is reportedly looking for joint venture partners in India, according to a news report, and French furniture maker Gautier and retail giant Carrefour detailed plans to set up operations on the subcontinent as well.

    India’s financial capital Mumbai ranks second only to global commercial hub London in terms of office rentals, while the national capital is not far behind at eighth spot.

    Automobile major Tata Motors [Get Quote] and space agency Indian Space Research Organisation are gearing up to launch the prototype of the world’s cleanest car that will run on hydrogen and emit a mere wispy trail of water vapour.Making this announcement in Bangalore on Thursday, ISRO chairman Madhavan Nair said that the car would roll out early next year.

    The drug regulatory agencies of India and Canada are planning to collaborate on improving the quality of drugs traded between the two countries, besides helping the industry in both the countries to tap the opportunities in the field of generic medicines and drug development.

    Electronics major Hitachi Home Electronics Asia (HHES) today announced that it would increase focus on the Indian high-end flat panel display market, as part of its growth strategy. The company plans to focus on tapping the high-end market and expand to tier-II cities.

    If you longingly gaze at those classic white and ivory luxury linens in home décor magazines, here’s some good news for you. America’s famous luxury bed linen brand Peacock Alley is coming to India soon.

    Mining industry in Australia is looking at India as a huge investment destination particularly in contract mining with Kolkata as the hub of operations.

    The Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET), a global engineering society which boasts of over 1.5 lakh members globally, is looking to strengthen its partnership with Indian engineering community in all branches of engineering.

    Cambridge to launch scholarship in PM s name

    PLEASE DONT’ DSTURB US… LEAVE US ALONE WE STINK AND WE DO NOT KNOW HOW TO CONDUCT BUSINESS, WE DO NOT SPEAK ENGLISH, WE DON’T KNOW WHAT IS INDUSTRY, TECHNOLOGY PLEASE BE KIND ENOUGH TO LEAVE THIS SINKY INDIA AND INDIANS….. we are not educated…. tooo Please leave as alone do not smell us,just close your eyes in case you see us…

  62. woteber says:

    Mr/Ms. Truth and Fact,

    Hahaha! Sorry, but I can’t stop laughing with your post. Don’t be offended but I mean this in a very friendly way. If only those self-glorifying countrymen of mine realize this then they will probably shut up and stop bragging about how great they are. But hey, cool down. I don’t think that in general Indians are stinky. There are stinky folks in every race. A lot of Filipinos are stinky too. I even read in someone’s blog that some Europeans smell so bad too. So it’s plainly ignorance. Just ignore those Filipino losers.

  63. Truth and Fact says:

    Another Globally proven reply to this dicussion

    INDIA’S HPCL WORLD’S N0-1 OUTSOURCING VENDOR

    India’s fourth largest software exporter HCL Technologies has been ranked as the world’s top vendor in the infrastructure space, a recent survey said. HCL Technologies topped the list of 276 vendors, while beating global and domestic giants like IBM, Accenture, HP, Infosys, TCS, Wipro and Satyam.
    HCL Tech is followed by US-based Electronic Data Systems (EDS) and Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC) on second and third positions, according to an annual survey by Brown-Wilson survey for “The Black Book of Outsourcing.”
    A total of five Indian companies made to the top-20 list, including Satyam (13), Wipro (14), Infosys (18) and Tata Consultancy Services (20). HCL Technologies also excelled in the sub-categories like on-site comprehensive, remote comprehensive and desk top support services and storage and servers.
    The infrastructure ranking was based on vendor evaluation across 18 points of infrastructure operational excellence including innovation, training, breadth of offerings, client adaptability, reliability, support and customer care to name a few.

  64. Truth and Fact says:

    India leading offshore services: Gartner

    BANGALORE: India remains the undisputed leader in offshore services while countries like China, Russia and Brazil are providing credible alternatives, according to a Gartner study which also named 30 offshore locations.

    Pakistan, the Philippines, Sri Lanka and Vietnam performed weakly due to concerns over the political and economic environment.

  65. a Kiwi says:

    Mr and Mrs Speedy,

    To say that the trial of call centres in the Philipines for Xtra internet services in NZ has been positive is a real joke. Xtra is right at the bottom of the heap in customer satisfaction especially in dealing with the call centre. Everyone has a horrible story of their experience with a Filipino rep on the phone. Now they’re making things worse than that by outsourcing directory assistance to the Philipines too. I don’t care how much Maori language training these reps get or what sort of overview they get of NZ, they will NEVER be able to do this job well. Some NZ place names are difficult for real Kiwi’s to grasp hold of, especially with local slang, mispronunciations and common deviations. Things that only a kiwi would know. All these call centres do is make the customers furious and make things extremely difficult for the real local workers to clean up when things eventually get escalated to the BEST people for the job, the locals on the ground.

    It may be cheaper but I am yet to meet anyone that can really say that they’ve had a positive experience with a call centre hosted in the Philipines for a NZ customer base.

    That all being said I would like to ask one question. If most of the complaints related to Teletech and Sitel, is it possible that the service levels of these particular call centre operators are not the best and if so which companies do a better job?

    I would be interested in feedback on the above question as it may be possible that the opinion of the Kiwi public is jaded by the experience given from a small number of call centre operations. Perhaps our judgement is not fair, although I do believe that my points about directory assistance are valid.

  66. Truth and Fact says:

    Indians don’t know English and dont know how to conduct business>>>>>????

    WASHINGTON: Vikram Pandit, a India’s Nagpur-born NRI who wowed was on Tuesday named CEO of Citigroup, the world’s largest bank, in what many see as a crisis rescue mission. Pandit, who is 50, is the first person of Indian origin to scale such heights in the financial world, which has many well-regarded Indian executives. Citigroup has operations in more than 100 countries, with 300,000 employees and $ 2 trillion in assets.

  67. Truth and Fact says:

    See the Truth and Accept the Facts

    YOU ARE NOT IN THE PICTURE EVEN….

    RP not a top investment site, says consulting firm

    Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:13 AM
    An international consultating firm said that despite the booming economy of the Philippines, it is still not one of the top destinations for investment.

    A.T Kearney consulting firm said that China and India remain the top investment sites as of this time.

    Country’s like Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia, meanwhile, are on the top 25 list.

    The following are A.T Kearney’s top 25 destinations:

    1. China
    2. India
    3. United States
    4. United Kingdom
    5. Hong Kong
    6. Brazil
    7. Singapore
    8. The United Arab Emirates
    9. Russia
    10. Germany
    11. Australia
    12. Vietnam
    13. France
    14. Canada
    15. Japan
    16. Malaysia
    17. Other Gulf States
    18. South Africa
    19. Mexico
    20. Turkey
    21. Indonesia
    22. Poland
    23. Central Asia
    24. South Korea
    25. Czech Republic
    Here is the link: http://www.philstar.com/index.php?Local%20News&p=54&type=2&sec=2&aid=200712125

  68. sick&tired says:

    Whether you are a Filipino or an Indian, we’re just both kissing the American’s and Brit’s asses. Think about it.

  69. Truth and Facts says:

    No Mr/Ms. Sick and Tired..

    Look back to the Hisotry and you will see who is kiising.. Diplomacy and strategy is not kissing asses. We dont even let those people enter India without obtaining a visa prior to enter Air Port. It is a long process too. We dont let any other nationas Defense Base in our country.. India no Longer Boycott foreign companies, instead we just buy out. We overcome and succeeded with all the so called developed nations embargo and sanctions. We maintaned democracy in a decent way without any Military intervention. we dont have any confusion to find out who elected after the democractic elections.
    Honesty we are tired of You peoples (not all) attitude towards rest of the Asians…..

  70. a Kiwi says:

    Both nations are a second choice to the superior service and support that could be given in the home nation. It’s cost and cost alone that drives call centres to India and the Philipines. Heck, some countries have even chosen Egypt these days because Egypt is even cheaper. It’s only a matter of time before another country offers a cheaper service and this whole argument will be a waste of time.

    Both India and the Philipines offer second rate service but very good rates for delivery of that second rate service.

    So this is really an argument about who delivers the best crap.

  71. Truth and Fact says:

    Mr/Ms. Kiwi
    Withe all respect you as a human being let me write..
    Please get out of the small pond you are in and look at the world

    Australia
    GDP (purchasing power parity):$644.7 billion (2006 est.)
    GDP – real growth rate: 2.7% (2006 est.)

    China
    GDP (purchasing power parity):$10.21 trillion (2006 est.)
    GDP – real growth rate: 11.1% (official data) (2006 est.)

    India
    GDP (purchasing power parity):$4.164 trillion (2006 est.)
    GDP – real growth rate: 9.4% (2006 est.) \

    Philippine
    GDP (purchasing power parity): $449.8 billion (2006 est.)
    GDP – real growth rate: 5.4% (2006 est.)

  72. a Kiwi says:

    Truth and Fact.

    You seems to be missing the point. The service from these call centres is still pretty pathetic. Your facts and figures have nothing to do with the issue at all.

    I have worked with call centres and in customer services in the Pacific and throughout Asia. I have managed multi million dollar operations. I am yet to see any operation in the Philipines or India that can match the levels of service possible within NZ for the NZ consumer. The Philipines and India compete solely on cost. However, this is at the cost of customer satisfaction. All of the contact centres that have gone to the Philipines are ranked right at the bottom of the heap in customer satisfaction surveys. Even the 2nd and 3rd tier levels within NZ have high levels of frustration in dealing with the 1st tier level contact staff in the Philipines or India.

    This is not about GDP, although important, it does not make these contact centres any better. The service is terrible and the communication skills are really lacking. So please don’t come back with statistics that have no relation to the comments that I have made because it’s so off topic that it is not funny.

    So, this Kiwi has been out of the small pond and been extremely successful out of the pond. I’d hazzard a guess more successful and with more experience than yourself.

    I’d also be interested in a reply to my previous question. Quoted below

    “Mr and Mrs Speedy,

    To say that the trial of call centres in the Philipines for Xtra internet services in NZ has been positive is a real joke. Xtra is right at the bottom of the heap in customer satisfaction especially in dealing with the call centre. Everyone has a horrible story of their experience with a Filipino rep on the phone. Now they’re making things worse than that by outsourcing directory assistance to the Philipines too. I don’t care how much Maori language training these reps get or what sort of overview they get of NZ, they will NEVER be able to do this job well. Some NZ place names are difficult for real Kiwi’s to grasp hold of, especially with local slang, mispronunciations and common deviations. Things that only a kiwi would know. All these call centres do is make the customers furious and make things extremely difficult for the real local workers to clean up when things eventually get escalated to the BEST people for the job, the locals on the ground.

    It may be cheaper but I am yet to meet anyone that can really say that they’ve had a positive experience with a call centre hosted in the Philipines for a NZ customer base.

    That all being said I would like to ask one question. If most of the complaints related to Teletech and Sitel, is it possible that the service levels of these particular call centre operators are not the best and if so which companies do a better job?

    I would be interested in feedback on the above question as it may be possible that the opinion of the Kiwi public is jaded by the experience given from a small number of call centre operations. Perhaps our judgement is not fair, although I do believe that my points about directory assistance are valid.”

  73. Truth and Fact says:

    Kiwi.
    This is one of the recent study:
    India leading offshore services: Gartner

    BANGALORE: India remains the undisputed leader in offshore services while countries like China, Russia and Brazil are providing credible alternatives, according to a Gartner study which also named 30 offshore locations.

    Pakistan, the Philippines, Sri Lanka and Vietnam performed weakly due to concerns over the political and economic environment.

  74. a Kiwi says:

    The quote below from Truth and Fact.
    It’s sad to see that offshore support centres are still growing and expanding to more countries. Yes this is a global community, but it’s cost before customer and the poor service of these contact centres only drives more customer call back for rework…. perhaps they bank on this as all the competition are using the same poor service too.

    As soon as companies get tired of the poor service and listen to what their customers are saying they will find a way to cut these contact centres out of the equation and automate a great deal of the work that they do. A smart company will also understand that they could do things cheaper at home by doing things more efficiently with far less people.

    “BANGALORE: India remains the undisputed leader in offshore services while countries like China, Russia and Brazil are providing credible alternatives, according to a Gartner study which also named 30 offshore locations.

    Pakistan, the Philippines, Sri Lanka and Vietnam performed weakly due to concerns over the political and economic environment.”

  75. Truth and Fact says:

    Mr./Ms Kiwi,
    why more companies coming to Asia if our services are bad? Why companies outsourcing more and more services to Asia? We charge only the right price for the services. Why Citi group needs an Asian CEO for its rescue mission? Why Pepsi required an Asian (born and grew up in Asia) for rescue? We are not just following your management and we are redefining the Management and Corporate Ethics. How come the an Asian company is the largest Iron company in the world? Why the Western companies hiring more and more Tech professionals from Asia? Recent Example Cisco CTO. One of the world biggest Telephone companies is led by an Asian. I guess Mr. Kiwi is speaking from his past Mind Set. You must see the current and future Architectures of the world. The Industry growth in Asian countries testify my statesment.

  76. a Kiwi says:

    Mr./Ms Kiwi, Replies below … under questions and statements.
    “why more companies coming to Asia if our services are bad? ”

    Price and price alone. Companies are unable to compete with the labour costs in Asian countries. It’s either move offshore or die trying to compete.

    “Why companies outsourcing more and more services to Asia?”

    See above.

    “We charge only the right price for the services.”

    The right price is at YOUR pricing, not ours. It may be good profit at YOUR end, but at our end it’s really cheap labour. Your kidding yourself if you believe it’s about quality of service, that is beyond a joke.

    Why Citi group needs an Asian CEO for its rescue mission?

    Because he was perhaps the most qualified and experienced. We are not talking about a CEO here. This is not even on topic. We are talking about Contact Centre service – these people are not even on the same scale as Citi Groups CEO. We’re not talking about race here either. My wife is Asian and so are my kids. I spent most of my adult life in Asia. I’ve got no problem with Asia. I love Asia.

    “Why Pepsi required an Asian (born and grew up in Asia) for rescue?”

    Again read the above…. Way off topic.

    “We are not just following your management and we are redefining the Management and Corporate Ethics.”

    I think you will find that the Management and Corporate Ethics, measurement tools, and proceedures that are used are actually globally on the uptake and are nothing new or innovative, just repackaged for a different culture. The majority do not find their origins in Asia. But this also has nothing to do with the service being delivered in the Contact Centres as they are still poor.

    “How come the an Asian company is the largest Iron company in the world?”

    Don’t have an answer for that, but then I don’t have that information. Good on them. BUT again, WHAT has that got to do with the topic OR any of my statements. ….. NOTHING.

    “Why the Western companies hiring more and more Tech professionals from Asia?”

    These are at a more skilled level than those in the contact centres and hopefully have a better command of English or don’t require their communication skills. That being said, many of my Asian friends are tech professionals and doing well here. Again, very little to do with the contact centres.

    “Recent Example Cisco CTO. One of the world biggest Telephone companies is led by an Asian.”

    Again, a suitably qualified person. Percentage wise it should be expected that some of the top companies in the world would be headed by Asians. Do I really need to list ALL of the companies in the world that are successful and NOT headed up by an Asian? Please stay on topic.

    “I guess Mr. Kiwi is speaking from his past Mind Set. You must see the current and future Architectures of the world. The Industry growth in Asian countries testify my statesment.”

    Rubbish. None of your statements testify to anything on the topic. Every statement you have made IS OFF TOPIC and relates to business in general or the successes of the few. We are talking about Contact Centres here. We are talking about the ability of these contact centres to deliver the service expected by the customer.

    I don’t dispute your statements for the most part, but I think that you are looking through a very Asian biased viewpoint.

    Don’t bother to answer with anything that is not related to the topic because I assure you that I will nail you to the wall on it.

  77. Truth and Fact says:

    Mr.Ms. Kiwi,
    Just FYI.. Those companies outsourcing to Asia are most competative and are poineers in their business without compermising their qualities.That means we are providing quality service. You need to re-evaluate your english listening skill if you dont understand. The reason is most of the eglish speaking countries can communicate with us.

    “Nailing dow to wall!!”- Good joke my friend.

  78. a Kiwi says:

    “Just FYI.. Those companies outsourcing to Asia are most competative and are poineers in their business without compermising their qualities.”

    The pioneers ORIGINALLY outsourced to companies providing these services through DOMESTIC call centres. These companies then, to cut costs, took the contact centres off shore. The quality has suffered, this is a known fact, however contracts bind these companies to the outsoured contact centres for the time being.

    “That means we are providing quality service.”

    That means that the NZ companies are guilty of being shortsighted in contractual agreements and now have to live with things the way they are.

    “You need to re-evaluate your english listening skill if you dont understand.”

    No, it’s that the people in the Contact Centres DON’T UNDERSTAND and that is what they are PAID for. We can understand perfectly that THEY are not understanding what is being communicated to them. These people are being PAID to communicate with NATIVE English speakers. And don’t even begin to try and tell me that Filipinos can communicate on that same level…. some can… but the GREAT MAJORITY can not. It’s butchered bastardised English at best.

    “The reason is most of the eglish speaking countries can communicate with us.”

    And laugh their asses off after they’re through on the phone and have to get someone else to sort out the mess that these contact centres create.

    ““Nailing dow to wall!!”- Good joke my friend.”

    What I said was “…nail you to the wall on it” and I am most certainly not your friend. Perhaps you should practice your English a little more before I rip it to bits because some of it is pretty laughable.

    Now, can you please post something that doesn’t prove my point on sub standard levels of English as your argument hasn’t helped at all nor has your obvious lack of comprehension on anything that I’ve written. Or are you perhaps another proud patriot that can’t get to grips with the fact that your country gets the contracts not on service but on price?

    You are obviously lacking in any real experience in dealing with these contact centres as a customer. And why would you, you don’t live here.

    Ah, but I do know Indians, Filipinos, Chinese, Taiwanese, Malasians etc that DO live here and DO agree 100% with all of the opinions that I have stated. Actually, they are the ones that speak out the loudest regarding the poor service and shocking language skills. Some of them gave up on English ONLY TO FIND that the service was poor no matter what the language. So, unless you can speak from that kind of experience, well, you’d probably be better to keep quiet.

    It’s put up or shut up time.

  79. a Kiwi says:

    And BTW, English is my first language but I could also do any of these contact centre positions in Mandarin Chinese and at times have had to take over from so called professional translators in these fields because they couldn’t get it right.

    So, I could keep this up all day. Why? Because I know what I am talking about. Why? Because I have been in positions to evaluate service levels of these outsourced contact centres and their Service Level Agreements for companies outside of New Zealand. I also believe that those companies represented by these centres would have great issues with service level agreements. I am ITIL certified and have the experience to back it up. I would love to do this same study for these NZ companies, but don’t have the time. I’ve even fished for other outsourcing companies names to see if anyone would mention a company that I do know well, but no one has.

    I will say this though. There are some precious jewells in amoungst the garbage at these contact centres. People with great experience and awesome communication skills. These people are highly skilled and can deliver results. These reps are to be commended. I salute them. They are the minority however. I hope that these reps get an opportunity to advance and perhaps leave their home countries for higher paid work in other countries. I know that these people would succeed. The same applies to any contact centre, local or offshore, there are good and bad reps everywhere. The problem is when basic communication and language skills lack, this can not be made up for by any high level of tech skill. However, a good communicator would be able to make up for minor tech skill lacking by gathering the correct information and obtaining the help of support staff. There is always room to learn.

    Problem is that the NZ consumers are stuffed either way. With one company you get answered in the Philipines, another in India, and another in Egypt. The customer ends up switching service providers to find the contact centre that has the least amount of pitiful service. The best that most companies can hope for is that people don’t need to call.

    The skills are not the issue. These contact centres handle really low level tier one stuff. We have all the skills to handle this type of work but can’t compete on price. Tier 2 and more advanced work is where NZ is lacking in IT as our highest skilled people go offshore to other countries to earn more money (I know, I did this) and return later on to settle down having already moved beyond these support and lower level management roles. NZ does this work, there is no way that this would ever be trusted to these offshore contact centres. If so called better skills in the Philipines and India were the reason for the contact points being in these countries then this picture would have been turned on its head and NZers would be the tier one grunts sweating it out for the peanut salaries. But that is not the case.

    It’s all about $$$$$

  80. a Kiwi says:

    Never underestimate how much any company would risk screwing customers out of good service in order to increase the bottom line because they know that the other companies will need to play a similar game in order to compete on price. So far it’s a gamble that has paid off for most major players. I just hope that these offshore contact centres can lift their games and meet customer service expectations or eventually it will come around and bite them in the ass. There is always someone cheaper that can deliver the same crap service, but if you are cheap (but not as cheap) and can deliver good service then you will be the winner.

    I give it five years for competition to play things out to breaking point and then see what happens. Improve or fall victim to the ‘next Philipines’ as there is always another country waiting to take that mantle.

  81. Aussie Dave says:

    Give me a Filipino call centre operator any day over an Indian one!
    The Filipinos are much easier to understand and have a more pleasant disposition towards their customers.

    Indians should realise that they are handicapped by their strong accents when conversing with westerners – Filipinos do not experience this problem as their accent is almost identical to the American accent.

  82. DAVE, TX says:

    I CAN SMELL THEM STINKY INDIANS EVEN FROM THE OTHER END OF THE LINE!!!

  83. WWWFC says:

    Indians, contrary to popular belief, actually do have employment. Whilst the stereotypical Indian lies out on the street worshipping cows and his/her/its god the business minded creature sits at a desk calling millions of people he/she/it has never even met before. These Indians are known as telemarketers. Indian telemarketers have no real personal life and no real friends, seeing as every person they date happens to be a potential buyer of their products. What makes Indian telemarketers even more annoying is the way they pronounce English. The following is an example of a typical Indian telemarketer calling an innocent, random person and the correct response one must use when dealing with these creatures.

    Indian Telemarketer: Herddo?

    Victim: Hello

    Indian Telemarketer: Dhish issh Steve (Bullshit Western Name)calling vhor(Company Name). Vee belif you may vee intreshted in vun of our produ-

    Victim: SHUT THE FUCK UP AND SHOVE THIS PISSING PHONE UP YOUR ASS YOU DIRTY SON OF A BITCH.

    -Hang Up-

    As you can see, Indian telemarketers only understand swearing, abuse and violence. That is why they make good slaves.

    Another typical job for Indian citizens is the production of bats for cricket. Rather than train and get better at playing the sport, in hope of one day rivalling Australia in skill, Indians prefer to suck up to the countries more developed, powerful and altogether better by making them bats. Of course, this theory is rubbish, nobody will ever trust Indians.

    Also get most of their money with car insurance, by faking neck injuries when the cops come near the car smashed up like a granny was driving it.

    The final stereotypical job for indians is technology support for electronics companies such as Microsoft. Instead of giving fully educated people from the philippines, canada or puerto ricans employment they deserve, Microsoft have decided to give their jobs to low wage, unlearned and basically starving Indians who will “surely” know how to operate a PC when the whole country could not afford one without Live Aid.

  84. TDK Jr. says:

    This is just envy.. nothing else. They (Ind) buying out foreign companies.. They are working on the deal of Jaguar and Range Rover.. you guys lost several major contracts from all over the world.. It is not just call centre. They got R&D for UL, IBM,ITT, Google, Yahoo, Microsft, ITT, Halliburton,etc and design centres of major Engineering cos. Boeing recently tied up with TATA. They got great domination in Space Science, e.g recently launched Israel’s satelite. They will launch their moon vision pretty soon. They got lot of research work on Nano science, Pharma, IT, etc.. They beat even IBM for major Air Cargo handling Software system. They are really not interested in Call centre any more. They still get contract and but will be routed thru various destination in the world. CEOs of major companies and and various world leaders visiting india to obtain a slice piece from there. They know how to conduct the business and they prove itby buying out Arcellor, Corres, etc. Majority of the Indian students in the world renouned universities are comparatively smarter… Just dont be envious guys… everybody got a right to live…

  85. TDK Jr. says:

    Oops I forgot.. Aussie- in cricket and culture you recently showed your sports man spirit by throwing rotten eggs to Srilankan players. who else can in the world can claim we are still on top though continously failed in the matches!!! Just irritation and envy.. But they just ignore thse by smiling….

  86. Aussie Dave says:

    WWWFC – you stated that the “stereotypical job for Indians is technical support for electronics companies” but you are wrong my friend.

    Thye stereotypical job for Indians is in fact operating a 7/11 store.

  87. TDK Jr. says:

    Sorry to say.. You are not in the picture…..
    and we just dont count you…..

  88. John says:

    Are call centers the only jobs our country and our government can ever think of? It’s nothing more than an elaborate temp job (being as an agent)other than a career choice. Where are the days when people have real jobs? Like being a firemen, teachers, law men or doctors? Being an agent may be temporary or not, it depends on your actions on the floor: if you don’t sell, you’re fired. It’s that easy.

    Anyway, I hate what’s happening with this call center thing today. Some companies accept people who are still in high school, where young people are supposedly should finish their education. That’s a bad sign, to expose young people to an adult environment.

  89. amhir says:

    Mr. Kiwi

    Sir with all due respect I don’t think you know what you are talking about, I’ve been in your country and you people are dumb ass with regards to technology. You complain that we Filipinos does not know what we are talking about, but you guys does not even know how to use the machines you are purchasing, so wise guy stop being so racist, look who’s working on the jobs you guys does not want, because you dumb guys does not now and is too lazy to do hardwork….

  90. edy the pogi says:

    Ha ha ha. Indians are insecure bastards. The only reason why they succeed is because they are expert manipulators and deceptionist. They don’t play a fair game and their business conduct is highly unethical. The very reason why most nationalities have issues with them. In front they post as a friend but at the end they will stab you to push their secret interest. I knew this beacuse I lived and worked with them for a decade. Traitorial acts is their culture and way of life. They think of themselves as a global giant without even thinking that bazillions of their country men were starving and often commiting suicide because of extreme depression and poverty. ha ha. what a big JOKE.

  91. shut the F*** up says:

    stop comparing india and philippines. each country has its own strength and weaknesses. quality wise,i’ll go for the philippines. technical skills, i’ll go for india. the main concept of putting this dirty job in these countries is mainly because it’s cheap. but on the other hand, customer service skills should be the key factor in choosing which country you would go for. i could say it would be the philippines. an irate caller can be cooled down by a filipino,an irate caller will curse you till the end of the day if you’re an indian. language wise, i prefer philippines because they have a neutral accent. not only philippines is catering to english-speaking coutnries, but also they have multi lingual contact centers. filipinos can speak fluent spanish,japanese,mandarin and french. when it comes to which country has the biggest number of seats,well it’s india because of their large population.philippines on the other hand has the quality like i have mentioned.

    most likely, callers would tend to speak to an on-shore rep if they got to speak to an indian. unlike filipinos, they can’t even notice that they are speaking with someone with a different race. most of the time, callers would think that they are speaking with a Cali because most filipinos tend to have a Cali accent.

  92. coco says:

    where can i report the call center that uses fake mmicrosoft software and the agents are all underpayed and no benifits given to the poor worker. Pls reply asap [email protected]

  93. jose101 says:

    basing it on experience, i had an american customer ordering for some items. After my greetings (“thank u for calling……………”), it’s really surprising when she directly butted in and thanked me that she’s not talking to an Indian. After the call she even asked for my supervisor to commend me. My point is, I think Philippines is really hot with call centers bcause we have more neutralized accents.

  94. Roger says:

    Whether in the Phillippines or India,outsourcing is often a terrific way to expand your inside sales presence quickly and affordably. Many telemarketing outsourcing firms are good if you provide them the list, script, and offer and then supervise the implementation thoroughly. What if you don’t already know the best list, script or offer? What if you have a new product or are new to inside sales? The standard telemarketing outsourcing firm is usually not well equipped to figure that out. You need a specialized firm.
    An experienced call center consultant could shorten the road to success and reduce both the cost and possibility of failure substantially. One firm, Customer Solutions Group, specializes in nothing but creating, optimizing and documenting the most efficient inside sales process. Their consultants have decades of experience and run the InsideSalesLab (a sales incubator that specializes in testing). They create a test matrix tailored for each specific service and, using their internally developed specialized software, step through various test sales until a winning process is identified.
    Once the best approach is known, they help migrate that into another permanent call center that can execute the known process very well. They’re available at http://www.insidesaleslab.com or (877) 274-5221.

  95. G says:

    “Why didn’t Apple went to the Philippines…” well maybe it’s because of bad grammar and comm skills like this writer…

  96. Hey, nice story. I just now stumbled on your blog and am already a fan. :P

  97. Different perception says:

    Dear edy the Pogi,

    Dont just say something, because you want to say something. I am Indian and agree we dont have an American accent and slightly agree on other concerns too, on certain extent. But you said “Traitorial acts is their culture and way of life” Do you about indian culture, you read anything about our’s, please google and read some. You deserve to read Thirukural and many more literatures to know about us..

  98. a kiwi says:

    amhir,

    That’s quite an amusing observation, although incorrect. Perhaps you may like to research how long service desks stay in these cheap countries. For many the answer is not long because the failure rate for service is so high. some companies don’t care because cost is key. The amount of negative comments should give you a clue.

  99. thanks for the comment on my blog , i hope you can return back

  100. Mike Sandoval says:

    Filipinos are way way better than Indians i am a Filipino we can easily adjust to any accent because we’re smart and educated why do you think Indians are cheaper than Filipinos? its plain and simple dude because we are far better than Indians in many aspects like the accent, grammar and the right attitude etc etc. India is only good for a non voice BPO’s because Americans cannot understand you and they will be pissed the way you (Indians) speak.

  101. Mike Sandoval says:

    Filipinos are way way better than Indians i am a Filipino we can easily adjust to any accent because we’re smart and educated why do you think Indians are cheaper than Filipinos? its plain and simple dude because we are far better than Indians in many aspects like the accent, grammar and the right attitude etc etc. India is only good for a non voice BPO’s because Americans cannot understand you and they will be pissed the way you (Indians) speak. another thing why they (BPO) choose Philippines because the number one problem of india is malnutrition they lack of vitamins to keep their memory sharp

  102. Mike Sandoval says:

    Hey Indian punk bitches check your grammar first before you write anything i don’t understand what your saying

  103. Jeramel says:

    Call Center Philippines aim is to not just simply exceed your requirement, but to become partners to our clients’ business success. http://www.tyfinc.com

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  107. The Philippines has topped amongst the choices for offshore outsourcing countries due to low wage cost. Amidst global recession, a foreigner’s best resort for its business to survive is outsourcing to low wage countries and Philippines is one of the developing countries with low wages. Some may just want to free up their time and grow their business but simply cannot afford unless revenue increases. Other than that is cultural affinity from the West (historically) and English Proficiency. Despite that, we can never erase the fact that India has strong roots in call center industry most especially when we talk about IT and we concede to the fact that there are some things that India has and the Philippines don’t. But the Philippines continue to improve its talent and develop its resources to provide the best possible customer service.

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